Talk:Lebanon

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I disagree with this framing of the present conflict.

This view completely ignores the rocket attacks directed at Israeli cities which have continued unabated for years. Hamas, al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and Hizbullah have been launching mortar shells, Qassams and Katyushas into Israel nearly every day since the start of the second intifada. The towns of Kiryat Shemona and Sderot live under a constant hail of rocket fire, which the international community conveniently ignores. The Israeli defense minister, Amir Peretz, a union labor organizer turned left-wing politician, lives in Sderot and vowed to bring the rocket attacks upon his home town to a halt [1].

Further, Human Rights Watch conceded that the recent explosion on the beach in Gaza which killed eight may have been the result of unexploded ordinance and not an intentional attack upon civilians [2]. The day of this widely-publicized explosion Israel was shelling Qassam launch areas in the Gaza strip. Previously Israel had been striking at empty fields [3] in response to Qassam barrages. As the Palestinian militants were deterred from those areas, they moved into civilian centers from which they continued to launch their attacks into Israel.

Finally, Israel was not the only party to reject negotiations. Hamas has repeatedly stated that it will not negotiate with Israel [4] (whereas it does not recognize Israel's right to exist [5]) and it is decreed in their charter [6]: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." Hamas has also stated that it will take any concession Israel wishes to offer, but that it will never rescind "the Palestinian right" to forcibly liberate all of territorial Palestine.

Israel is far from perfect. It is the occupying power and the bearer of greater force, thus it has a greater obligation to act responsibily and to minimize harm to civilians, which it has not done. However Hamas, Hizbullah, et al, are not the friends of anarchists, liberals, or peaceniks. They are not innocent parties. Rather, they view the international Palestinian solidarity movement as useful tools in helping them advance their agenda. That agenda is not peace with Israel, but the obliteration of Israel, one inch at a time. Under international law, Israel has no obligation to lay down and die, and that is why it has not been condemned for its incursion into Lebanon, but rather asked to use restraint and to minimize harm to civilians. By all means, challenge Israel for its failure to do so, but do not give Hamas a pass to which they are not entitled.

01:59, 18 Jul 2006 (PDT)Mobius1ski

You should add these points into the article. This was a pretty rushed effort and far from perfect. That's the beauty of the wiki. Right now I have a lot I need to take care of at home so I won't have the time.

[edit] several things

First:

As to Hezbollah being the largest faction in the Lebanese parliament, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Lebanon lists Hezbollah having 14 seats. That's less than half of what Said Hariri's Future Tide has (36). In fact, Hezbollah is tied for fourth place in the number of seats.

The Council on Foreign Relations http://www.cfr.org/publication/8195/lebanon.html just reports coalition totals, but the total for the coalition Hezbollah is a member of jibes with the Wikipedia numbers.

I have no idea where the oft-repeated figure of 23 comes from. Unless someone can provide evidence that it is correct, I plan on updating the page soon.

Second:

As to the Katyusha bombarment of northern Israel, I had heard (second-hand) that it had stopped after the Israeli pullout from Lebanon in 2000 and only resumed with the recent hostilities. Was this claim incorrect?

[edit] Data on rockets launched

This ZNET article by Stephen R. Shalom lists known rocket attacks on Israel from Lebanon from May 2000 (Israeli pullout from Lebanon) to July 12th 2006:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10721

It seems like there were only of the order of 50 rockets fired during that 6 year period, causing only a single death (of a child in Lebanon by a rocket that did't reach Israel), 5 civilians wounded and 1 IDF member wounded.

Furthermore, it seems that before May 28th, none of the rockets were fired by Hezbollah. On may 28th there was an exchange of fire between Hezbollah and IDF, in which 2 Lebanese but no Israeli citizens were injured.

There should be some effort made to reconcile this info with what is currently in the article.

--Ianji 05:18, 11 Aug 2006 (PDT)