Police Prepared To Arrest 3,000 At '08 RNC

Authored by: not24601 on Sunday, April 22 2007 @ 01:56 PM UTC

"Our goal is to arrest no one," (The police commander) said."

Psh. Promises, promises. Would be nice, though.

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Authored by: Admin on Sunday, April 22 2007 @ 02:07 PM UTC

At a meeting we had last week in NYC to talk about the DNC and RNC protests, several people argued that we need to focus less on the police and more on what we want to do as anarchists.

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment and I think that the 2008 convention events will only be successful to the extent that we ignore the police and move away from having confrontations with them. If our goal is to close down the conventions, then we should focus on doing that and spend less time protesting in the streets. And I know I'm not the only one who is completely tired of half-ass confrontations with the police. Our protests are not about the police, they are about the people in power and our vision of an anarchist alternative.

I also think that American anarchists are overly paranoid about police surveillance and repression. We spend too much time wringing our hands over police surveillance, instead of being more trusting of each other. One thing we need to minimize and put in its place is "security culture", which has transofrmed from some good practices in limited situations to dysfunctional paranoia.

The police and the government are just not as powerful as some of us make them out to be. When I was reminded of this last week, it occured to me that some of the paranoia about I-News' registration policy is misplaced and muddle-headed. You know, there are people around the world who have to deal with much more severe government repression, yet they continue to do their politics much more openly and boldly than we privileged Americans.

Chuck

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Authored by: uncontrollable on Sunday, April 22 2007 @ 04:30 PM UTC

I more or less agree. We should do everything we can to shut down the convention, and only deal with the police if we have to.

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Authored by: Killer Bunny on Sunday, April 22 2007 @ 08:50 PM UTC

Chuck, I generally agree with you premise that the play here is what we're going to do to stop the convention, not what the state is going to do to repress us. If we just wanted to fight the cops, we could do that in our own towns any time.

But I also think there is a real need for best-available intelligence on capabilities of the police, planning of the convention (and surrounding events) and the general lay of the land in Minneapolis-St. Paul. To be sure, what is possible for RNC 08 is largely informed by what we can think of and manifest... but it's also informed by WHAT IS (physically and logistically) POSSIBLE...

I've sat through too many long meetings about this action or that action where everybody is arguing from a different set of assumption and assertions. Of course there are going to be things we don't know, but the whole process of planning and thinking through this thing will be a LOT smoother and more effective if the information that is available is utilized (for what its worth) and the unknown variables and semiknown variables are identified.

I'm really excited that the folks from RNC not welcome are taking a hard look at logistics-maps of security perimeters and all- and conveying that information to groups and individuals around the country (via their website). It'll be really interesting to see how this whole framework transpires.

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Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, April 22 2007 @ 09:27 PM UTC

Glad you are finding the groundwork we are doing to be useful. The RNC Welcoming Committee website will have maps of both cities and convention sites posted soon. Keep in mind as folks talk for the next year that the Convention itself will be at the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, with Minneapolis hosting the Delegate Headquarters at the Minneapolis Hilton and the "Delegate Experience" at the Minneapolis Convention Center.

Since folks are curious, know that the Minneapolis Police have more experience dealing with protests, and aren't afraid to get down, if you know what I mean. We expect a lot of cops to be brought in from out-state to bolster their numbers. They plan to need 6,000 cops, more than exist in the entire state of Minnesota.


Even better than me telling you this, come to the pReNC in the Twin Cities Aug 31-Sep 3 and learn firsthand about the geography and culture of the cities. You won't be disappointed.

http://www.nornc.org

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Authored by: Admin on Sunday, April 22 2007 @ 09:40 PM UTC

I have no problem with people doing scouting, intelligence gathering, and preparing for the police. Hell, given the half-ass protests I've seen anarchists do in recent years I'm all for more planning and prep.

My point is that we need to be more conscious and vocal that the point of these protests is not to fight the cops. I would have no problem with anybody who wants to take on the cops, but I think that we will achieve more overall if we stick to our goals and steer clear of the protester vs. police storyline that is promoted by the media and the authorities.

I want to temper the words of my Minnesota comrade when it comes to police preparations. PLEASE, do not play into the hands of the police by telling people that the police will have large numbers and will be well-prepared. This is simply inaccurate!

We discussed this issue in NYC last weekend and even the NYC anarchists pointed out that the NYC police are not as all-powerful as they pretend to be. NYC is a unique situation, because it is a dense city with a large police department. But if NYC anarchists can see gaps in the armor of NY's terrorists in blue, then we should scoff at the idea that the police for the RNC will be as coordinated or well-trained.

The secruity arrangements for the DNC and RNC conventions are going to be tough for the authorities. They will have to bring in more cops to supplement local police departments which are pretty small. The cops will have to deal with the headache of herding all of the multi-jurisdictional cats. The cops will be "trained" to deal with protesters, but almost all of them won't have any *experience* dealing with protesters. I've observed the D.C. police department and they have problems even with their experience dealing with protests.

In other words, we should be prepared, but we should be skeptical about the effectiveness of the convention police forces.

Chuck

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Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, April 23 2007 @ 09:30 AM UTC

"I want to temper the words of my Minnesota comrade when it comes to police preparations. PLEASE, do not play into the hands of the police by telling people that the police will have large numbers and will be well-prepared. This is simply inaccurate!"

Chuck, you don't live here. Please don't tell us how to do our planning or what to share with folks. Maybe the cops give you flowers in Kansas, but guess what, we aren't in Kansas. We plan to be as prepared as we can.

"My point is that we need to be more conscious and vocal that the point of these protests is not to fight the cops. I would have no problem with anybody who wants to take on the cops, but I think that we will achieve more overall if we stick to our goals and steer clear of the protester vs. police storyline that is promoted by the media and the authorities."

When did anyone ever talk about fighting the cops? I have been having conversations with folks all over the country, and no one has said anything remotely close to it. The only place I hear it is here, mostly from you. We are working really hard to make this a historic gathering.

"My point is that we need to be more conscious and vocal that the point of these protests is not to fight the cops."

Um, duh? Trust me, the last thing anyone wants to do is that. I'm glad the NYC folks think their cops were a joke during the RNC, but guess what? We aren't in NYC. And if their were so many gaps in their armor, why so many arrests and so few actions?

It's really easy to sit in your Library of Doom secret fortress in Lawrence, Kansas and criticize between sips of Coke, but it isn't constructive.

Again thanks Chuck- we are all inexperienced and uncreative in Minnesota. So without your input, we'd be planning another boring march ending in a cop fight.

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Authored by: Admin on Monday, April 23 2007 @ 09:55 PM UTC

"Chuck, you don't live here. Please don't tell us how to do our planning or what to share with folks. Maybe the cops give you flowers in Kansas, but guess what, we aren't in Kansas. We plan to be as prepared as we can."

My comments were NOT directed at the Minnesota organizers, but at anarchists and activists in general. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear enough, but digital communications leave some of the nuances.

I'm not telling you how to do you planning, but I have every right to state my opinion about the planning. There will be lots of people outside of Minnesota who are making plans for the RNC protests and events.

"When did anyone ever talk about fighting the cops? I have been having conversations with folks all over the country, and no one has said anything remotely close to it. The only place I hear it is here, mostly from you. We are working really hard to make this a historic gathering."

They may not be talking about fighting the cops, but people will start talking about these things. Mostly off the record and not on websites. This has frequently happened before past protests and will probably happen again.

"Um, duh? Trust me, the last thing anyone wants to do is that. I'm glad the NYC folks think their cops were a joke during the RNC, but guess what? We aren't in NYC. And if their were so many gaps in their armor, why so many arrests and so few actions?"

I was in NYC for the 2004 protests. I saw plenty of gaps in the armor of those police. There were many actions that were carried out during the RNC convention, including more than a few that people don't generally know about. I don't know much about the Twin Cities police departments, but I think it is safe to say that they are inexperienced when it comes to dealing with mass protests.

"It's really easy to sit in your Library of Doom secret fortress in Lawrence, Kansas and criticize between sips of Coke, but it isn't constructive."

Neither are your disrespectful comments and personal attacks. I was making some general observations about tactics and strategy, which anybody should be free to make no matter where they live.

"Again thanks Chuck- we are all inexperienced and uncreative in Minnesota. So without your input, we'd be planning another boring march ending in a cop fight."

Jesus Christ. My comments were not directed at the Mineesota people.

Chuck

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Authored by: bring it on Wednesday, April 25 2007 @ 11:50 AM UTC

Hey. Just wanted to say that here in the TC we're stoked about the level of interest in the RNC, and the organizing that folks are already doing in other parts of the country. Of course, it's important to foreground the needs and concerns of those who actually live here, but we very genuinely want to see a strategy develop for 2008 that is inclusive of, and draws on the resources and experience of, (A)s from all over. This can only happen if input, criticism and insight are taken within a framework of trust and good will, and where those feelings run both ways. So, yeah, input and dialogue are valued and appreciated, and hopefully all the work people do across the country in the months to come is represented at the pReNC.

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Authored by: Perica on Monday, April 23 2007 @ 10:37 AM UTC

This past week the G8 Infotour came through my town and I was really impressed by the quality and detail of the workshop on why the G8 is whack and particularly detailed infomation about the geography and logistics of the protests and targets in the area.

A lot of the materials that were presented are available on the internet Here and on the Infortour Workgroup wiki. Although the infotour had more developed information and translations, I recomend folks look at this PDF on the Local Situation and Geography.

The maps we saw had even more description of the terrain, including things like Fields where GMO crops are planted, Immigration Detention Facilities, Hotels where delegates will be staying, Rail lines where the govt transports nuclear waste.

Resources like this allow groups comming from outside the area pick targets other than just the fence and confrontations with the police. if Minniapolis and Denver folks have the time to produce quality materials like this which give a better idea of what the geography, targets and obstales are, there is a much better chance that people will attend with an idea of what they would like to accomplish other than holding signs, marching blindly and confrontations with police.

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Authored by: RanDomino on Monday, April 23 2007 @ 08:58 AM UTC

I think we should ignore the RNC and instead host several hundred free concerts for the people whose downtown the Republicans will be monopolizing.

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Authored by: Killer Bunny on Monday, April 23 2007 @ 09:44 AM UTC

you're joking, aren't you??

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Authored by: femin(A)zi on Monday, April 23 2007 @ 09:15 PM UTC

i was at that rnc meeting in NYC, and although chuck0 is not misrepresenting what was said, the message seems to be getting lost.

1. nyc anarchists never said the cops were a joke during the rnc. cops in nyc are highly skilled and good at what they do. but they don't know everything and they can't be prepared for any eventuality all the time. they can be thwarted through creativity, spontaneity,and courage.

2. we give way too much fucking credit to the state and its surveillance machine. which isn't to say that it doesn't exist or it hasn't been used against us, but by believing the state to be omniscient and omnipotent, we are giving it waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much fucking credit.

which is why, we as anarchists need to focus on what we want to do, and let our tactics, recon, planning, etc reflect this first and foremost. the cops are going to be there, yes. we should utilize all available info, yes. but we should not psyche ourselves out by internalizing the scare-mongering of the state and basically policing ourselves, which is the main reason they release this kind of info about arresting 3000 people. "holy shit! we can't do anything! we're gonna get killed!"

i think what chuck0 is saying, and what people from nyc were saying (especially since they organized the last one of these things) is that we anarchists should come first. seattle and the other major mobilizations during those halcyon anti-globe days were successful because WE BELIEVED WE COULD DO IT. out of this belief springs creativity--tactics they don't expect, ideas they cannot plan for, eventualities that cannot be mapped out a year in advance.

if we remain reactionary, letting the cops dictate our every move, we will lose. our protests will be arrest-o-ramas, they will be rote, predictable, and everything the cops want --and plan-- them to be.

that said, kill the policeman inside your head!

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Authored by: Admin on Monday, April 23 2007 @ 09:45 PM UTC

Well said.

I have to apologize for the wrong choice of words--it's often hard to recapture the nuances of a discussion a week later. My choice of words indicated that the NYC had a flippant attitude that the NYC "were a joke" when it was actually argued that even the NYC police have their weaknesses.

Chuck

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