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Leftism 101 by Lawrence Jarach

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Leftism 101

by Lawrence Jarach


from Back to Basics volume two: The Problem with the Left,
in Green Anarchy #15 (Winter ’04)


What is Leftism?


For most it means some form of socialism, despite the fact that there are plenty of leftists who are not opposed to capitalism (clearly from the actual history of socialism, not all socialists are opposed to capitalism either). Plenty of other arguments can be made about that, but let’s just keep things simple and assume that the two terms are synonymous. As is the case with most vague terms, however, it’s easier to come up with a list of characteristics than a definition. Leftism encompasses many divergent ideas, strategies, and tactics; are there any common threads that unite all leftists, despite some obvious differences? In order to begin an attempt at an answer, it is necessary to examine the philosophical antecedents to what can broadly be termed Socialism.

Liberalism, Humanism, and Republicanism are political and philosophical schools of thought deriving from the modern European tradition (roughly beginning during the Renaissance). Without going into details, adherents of the three (especially Liberalism) presume the existence of an ideal property-owning male individual who is a fully rational (or at least a potentially rational) agent. This idealized individual stands opposed to the arbitrary authority of the economic and political systems of monarchism and feudalism, as well as the spiritual authority of the Catholic Church. All three (LH&R) presume the capacity of anyone (male), through education and hard work, to succeed in a free market (of commodities and ideas). Competition is the overall ethos of all three.

The promoters of LH&R insist that these modernist philosophies—compared to monarchism, elitism, and feudalism—are advances on the road to human freedom. They believe it more beneficial for what they call The Greater Good to adhere to and promote a philosophy that at least proposes the ability of anyone to gain some kind of control over her/his own life, whether in the realm of education, economic prosperity, or political interactions. The ultimate goals of LH&R are to do away with economic scarcity and intellectual/spiritual poverty, while promoting the idea of more democratic governance. They promote this under the rubric of Justice, and they see the State as its ultimate guarantor.

Socialism as a modern movement has been greatly influenced by these three philosophies. Like those who adhere to LH&R, leftists are concerned with, and are opposed to, economic and social injustice. They all propose ameliorating social ills through active intervention or charity, whether under the auspices of the State, NGOs, or other formal organizations. Very few of the proposed solutions or stopgaps promote (or even acknowledge) self-organized solutions engaged in by those directly suffering such ills. Welfare, affirmative action programs, psychiatric hospitals, drug rehabilitation facilities, etc. are all examples of various attempts to deal with social problems. Given the premises of these overlapping philosophies and their practical frameworks, they have the appearance of being the results of intelligence and knowledge mixed with empathy and the desire to help people. Cooperation for The Common Good is seen as more beneficial to humanity than individual competition. However, socialism also takes the existence of competition for granted. Liberals and socialists alike believe that human beings do not naturally get along, so we must be educated and encouraged to be cooperative. When all else fails, this can always be enforced by the State.


Moderate, Radical, and Extreme Leftism

Tactics and strategies

Regardless of the fact that there is plenty of overlap and blending—precluding real, discrete boundaries—I hope that describing these various manifestations of leftism will be a way to identify certain particular characteristics.

In terms of strategy and tactics, moderate leftists believe that things can be made better by working within current structures and institutions. Clearly reformist, moderate leftists promote legal, peaceful, and polite superficial alterations in the status quo, eventually hoping to legislate socialism into existence. The democracy they champion is bourgeois: one person, one vote, majority rule.

Radical leftists promotes a mixture of legal and illegal tactics, depending on whatever appears to have a better chance of succeeding at the moment, but they ultimately want the sanction of some properly constituted legal institutions (especially when they get to make most of the rules to be enforced). They are pragmatic, hoping for peaceful change, but ready to fight if they believe it to be necessary. The democracy they promote is more proletarian: they aren’t worried about the process of any particular election, so long as gains are made at the expense of the bosses and mainstream politicians.

Extreme leftists are amoral pragmatists, a strategic orientation that can also be termed opportunistic. They are decidedly impolite, explicitly desiring the destruction of current institutions (often including the State), with the desire to remake them so that only they themselves will be able to make and enforce new laws. They are much more willing to use force in the service of their goals. The democracy they promote is usually based on a Party.


Relationship to capitalists

All leftists privilege the category of worker as worker/producer, an entity that exists only within the sphere of the economy. Moderate leftists campaign for workers’ rights (to strike, to have job security and safety, to have decent and fair contracts), trying to mitigate the more obvious abuses of the bosses through the passage and enforcement of progressive legislation. They want capitalism to be organized with “People Before Profits” (as the overused slogan has it), ignoring the internal logic and history of capitalism. Moderate leftists promote socially responsible investing and want a more just distribution of wealth; social wealth in the form of the much-touted “safety net,” and personal wealth in the form of higher wages and increased taxes on corporations and the rich. They want to balance the rights of property and labor.

Radical leftists favor workers at the expense of the bosses. Workers are always right to the radical leftist. They wish to change the legal structure in such a way to reflect this favoritism, which is supposed to compensate for the previous history of exploitation. The redistribution of wealth envisioned by radical leftists builds on the higher wages and increased taxation of the corporations and the rich to include selective expropriation/nationalization (with or without compensation) of various resources (banks, natural resources for example).

Extreme leftists promote the total expropriation—without compensation—of the capitalist class, not only to right the wrongs of economic exploitation, but to remove the capitalist class from political power as well. At some point, the workers are to be at least nominally in charge of economic and political decision making (although that is usually meditated through a Party leadership).


The role of the State

Leftists view the State on a continuum of ambivalence. Most are clear that the role of the State is to further the goals of whatever class happens to rule at any given period; further they all recognize that the ruling class always reserves for itself a monopoly on the legitimate use of force and violence to enforce their rule. In the political imaginations of all moderate and some radical leftists, the State (even with a completely capitalist ruling class) can be used to remedy many social problems, from the excesses of transnational corporations to the abuses of those who have been traditionally disenfranchised (immigrants, women, minorities, the homeless, etc.). For extreme leftists, only their own State can solve such problems, because it is in the interest of the current ruling class to maintain divisions among those who are not of the ruling class. Despite the ambivalence, an attachment to the functions of government as executed by the State remains. This is the pivotal area of conflict between all leftists and all anarchists, despite the historical positioning of anarchism within the spectrum of leftism—about which more below.


The role of the individual

Missing from all these different strains of leftism is a discussion of the individual. While LH&R refer briefly to the individual, these philosophies do not take into account non-property-owning males, females, or juveniles—who are indeed considered the property of the normative individual: the adult property-owning man. This led to the complete lack on interest in (and the accompanying exploitation of) peasants and workers, a disregard that is supposed to be corrected by socialism. Unfortunately, virtually all socialists only posit the category Worker and Peasant as collective classes—a mass to be molded and directed—never considering the desires or interests of the individual (male or female) worker or peasant to control their own lives. According to the ideological imperatives of leftist thought, the self-activity of these masses is seen suspiciously through the ideological blinkers of the competitive ethos of capitalism (since the masses aren’t yet intelligent enough to be socialists); the workers will perhaps be able to organize themselves into defensive trade unions in order to safeguard their wages, while the peasants will only want to own and work their own piece of land. Again, education and enforcement of cooperation is necessary for these masses to become conscious political radicals.


A Generic Leftism?

So all leftists share the goals of making up for injustice by decree, whether the decree comes out of better/more responsive representatives and leaders, a more democratic political process, or the elimination of a non-worker power base. They all desire to organize, mobilize, and direct masses of people, with the eventual goal of attaining a more or less coherent majority, in order to propel progressive and democratic change of social institutions. Recruitment, education, and inculcating leftist values are some of the more mundane strategies leftists use to increase their influence in the wider political landscape.

All leftists have a common distrust of regular (non-political/non-politicized) people being able to decide for themselves how to solve the problems that face them. All leftists share an abiding faith in leadership. Not just a trust of particular leaders who portray themselves as having certain moral or ethical virtues over and above common people, but of the very principle of leadership. This confidence in leadership never brings representational politics into question. The existence of elected or appointed leaders who speak and act on behalf, or in the place, of individuals and groups is a given; mediation in the realm of politics is taken as a necessity, removing most decision making from individuals and groups. Leftists share this commitment to leadership and representation —they believe themselves able to justly represent those who have traditionally been excluded from politics: the disenfranchised, the voiceless, the weak.

The leftist activist, as a representative of those who suffer, is a person who believes her/himself to be indispensable to improving the lives of others. This derives from a dual-pronged notion common to all leftists:

1. Non-political people, left to their own devices, will never be able to alter their situations in a radical or revolutionary manner (Lenin’s dismissal of workers as never being able to move beyond a “trade union mentality” without some professional outside help comes to mind here); and

2. Those with more intelligence or a better analysis are both wise and ethical enough to lead (whether through example or by decree) and organize others for their own good, and perhaps more importantly, the greater good.

The unspoken but implicit theme that runs through this brief assessment of leftism is a reliance on authoritarian relations, whether assumed or enforced, brutally compelling or gently rational. The existence of an economy (exchange of commodities in a market) presumes the existence of one or more institutions to mediate disputes between those who produce, those who own, and those who consume; the existence of a representational political process presumes the existence of one or more institutions to mediate disputes between diverse parties based on common interest (often with conflicting goals); the existence of leadership presumes that there are substantive differences in the emotional and intellectual capacities of those who direct and those who follow. There are plenty of rationalizations contributing to the maintenance of such institutions of social control (schools, prisons, the military, the workplace), from efficiency to expediency, but they all ultimately rely on the legitimate (sanctioned by the State) use of coercive authority to enforce decisions. Leftists share a faith in the mediating influence of wise and ethical leaders who can work within politically neutral, socially progressive, and humane institutional frameworks. Their thoroughly hierarchical and authoritarian natures, however, should be clear even after a cursory glance.

Are All Forms of Anarchism Leftist?

All anarchists share a desire to abolish government; that is the definition of anarchism. Starting with Bakunin, anarchism has been explicitly anti-statist, anti-capitalist, and anti-authoritarian; no serious anarchist seeks to alter that. Leftists have consistently supported and promoted the functions of the State, have an ambiguous relationship to capitalist development, and are all interested in maintaining hierarchical relationships. In addition, historically they have either tacitly ignored or actively suppressed the desires of individuals and groups for autonomy and self-organization, further eroding any credible solidarity between themselves and anarchists. On a purely definitional level, then, there should be an automatic distinction between leftists and anarchists, regardless of how things have appeared in history.

Despite these differences, many anarchists have thought of themselves as extreme leftists—and continue to do so—because they share many of the same analyses and interests (a distaste for capitalism, the necessity of revolution, for example) as leftists; many revolutionary leftists have also considered anarchists to be their (naïve) comrades—except in moments when the leftists gain some power; then the anarchists are either co-opted, jailed, or executed. The possibility for an extreme leftist to be anti-statist is high, but is certainly not guaranteed, as any analysis history will show.
Left anarchists retain some kind of allegiance to 19th century LH&R and socialist philosophers, preferring the broad, generalized (and therefore extremely vague) category of socialism/anti-capitalism and the strategy of mass political struggles based on coalitions with other leftists, all the while showing little (if any) interest in promoting individual and group autonomy. From these premises, they can quite easily fall prey to the centralizing tendencies and leadership functions that dominate the tactics of leftists. They are quick to quote Bakunin (maybe Kropotkin too) and advocate organizational forms that might have been appropriate in the era of the First International, apparently oblivious to the sweeping changes that have occurred in the world in the past hundred-plus years—and they then have the gall to ridicule Marxists for remaining wedded to Marx’s outdated theories, as if by not naming their own tendencies after other dead guys they are thereby immune from similar mistakes.

The drawbacks and problems with Marxism, however—for example that it promotes the idea of a linear progression of history of order developing out of chaos, freedom developing out of oppression, material abundance developing out of scarcity, socialism developing out of capitalism, plus an absolute faith in Science as the ideologically neutral pursuit of pure Knowledge, and a similar faith in the liberatory function of all technology—are the same drawbacks and problems with the anarchism of Bakunin and Kropotkin. All of this seems lost on left anarchists. They blithely continue to promote a century-old version of anarchism, clearly unaware of, or unconcerned by, the fact that the philosophical and practical failures of leftism—in terms of the individual, the natural world, and appropriate modes of resistance to the continued domination of a flexible, adaptable, and expanding capitalism—are shared by this archaic form of anarchism as well.

Those of us who are interested in promoting radical social change in general, and anarchy in particular, need to emulate and improve upon successful (however temporary) revolutionary projects for liberation, rather than congratulating ourselves for being the heirs of Bakunin (et al). We can do this best if we free ourselves from the historical baggage and the ideological and strategic constraints of all varieties of leftism.



GREEN ANARCHY#15 (Winter 2004) is Out!

(In a new 72-page magazine format)

An Anti-Civilization Quarterly Publication
Featuring: theoretical and practical ideas on the “Destruction of Civilization and the Re-connection to Life”, analysis of anarchist and other resistance movements, action reports from around the world, news, prisoner updates, reviews, letters, and more!



Feature Articles include:

The Psychopathology of Work by Penelope Rosemont, Fawda (an anarchist look at the Palestinian struggle) by the Friends of Al-Halladj, Within the Realm of a Dying Sun: The U.S. Military Continues to Get Hammered in Iraq, The Way of History — Today by Thomas Manning, Impassioned Violence, Justified Violence, Recovering From Western Civilization: An Interview with Chellis Glenndenning - Part II, Electric Funeral: An In-Depth Examination of the Megamachine’s Circuitry by the Havoc Mass, Notes On Summits and Counter-Summits, Riding the High of Cancun and the Dangers of a Crash by Blackbeard, Under the Palms of Miami…This Season’s #1 Tourist Trap by E. Lou Civ, it’d feel so funny to be free, Feral Visions: A Journal of an Anti-Civilization Roadshow by Felonious Skunk, Notes on the Function of the Outlaw as Anti-Role by Thomas Tripp, Resisting the Neoliberal Discourse of Technology, by John Armitage, Reclaiming Thoreau for Anarchy, and Colonization, and Self-Government and Self-Determinatioin British Columbia by Insurgent-S.



The Usual Features:

The Garden of Peculiarities by Jesus Sepúlveda, State Repression News, Political Prisoner Listings, Reviews, Letters and News from the Balcony with Waldorf and Statler.



Extensive Direct Action Reports, including:

Ecological Resistance, Anti-GE Actions, Indigenous and Campesino Resistance, Anarchist Resistance from Around the World, Political Assassination Attempts in 2003, Anti-Capitalist and Anti-Imperialist Resistance, The Wild Ones Fight Back, Animal Liberation Actions, Further Symptoms of the System’s Meltdown, and Prisoner Uprisings and Revolts.



This issue also contains the special “Back To Basics” volune two: The Problem of the Left, which includes: The Nature of the Left, Leftism 101 by Lawrence Jarach, Liberation, Not Organization by A. Morefus, and The Left-Handed Path of Repression by Crocus Behemoth.




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Leftism 101 by Lawrence Jarach | 34 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
comment by 467676=653563
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 08:29 PM CST
The Article was interesting to read but it seems to me to be just to general. Doesnt really make a point or say anything.
comment by pr
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 09:54 PM CST
Hey it says a lot to me sport and I am a real human being not just some fuckin\' number!
Keep the GA articles coming Infoshop as by the time the dead tree GA gets here it costs 6+$.
I can print this off at the library for 20c.
All the best to Lawrence and the all the GA\'s, prims, sits and rip shit up inserrecto\'s out there. Keep em\' comin\', LUV* from professor rat.

*Linux Users of Victoria - \" All you need is LUV.\"
comment by Matt H
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 04:13 PM CST
Hey - what happened to the posts from Chuck0, Flint and myself? I checked back on the conversation just now and all those posts are gone (except one of mine). Didn\'t seem like things weren\'t too nasty, were they? I thought it was good to be hashing out some different opinions. Maybe it\'s a technical thing. Can anyone at Infoshop shed some light? Aren\'t Chuck0 and Flint both moderators? ??????
comment by Reverend Chuck0
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 04:22 PM CST
The posts were deleted by both Flint and myself. We are having a nasty argument right now.
comment by infoshop moderator
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 02:56 PM CST
Flamebait deleted (sectarian and ad hominim attack)
comment by Matt H
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 05:49 PM CST
I would say first off that I found a lot of the characterizations of what constitues \"leftism\" to be rather cartoonish in this piece. But without getting into that, I would cut to the chase and say that I agree with the basic idea that authoritarians and elites are not people I personally want to align with. Generally speaking, that goes against my principals. No surprise there. It seems that circumstances will always arise where the option of alliances become present and I would say that anti-authortarians and the like must choose carefully where they play their cards, and that these decisions should be made strategically and with all consequences looked at in a clear light.

The real question is, what are anti-authoritariana, or anarchists (or however people choose to define themselves) going to do to offer up an alternative to the authoritarians and elites. We need to be realistic and understand that everyday people are not jumping on the anarchist/anti-authoritarian float. I think that rather than more internally focused critiques of the \"left\" (read: authoritarians) anarchists should be thinking about strategy and tactics to grow their vision of a better world and attract other people to these ideas and methods. I\'m not so much interested in convincing my neighbors that the WWP is a bad trip (when they most likely have never even heard of the WWP), but rather trying to articulate and demostrate a more egalitarian way to co-exist and pursue change. The latter is a lot harder and something tells me that is why it needs so much more attention.
comment by me
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 09:03 PM CST
It is not just the overt \"authoritarians\" that are the problem, but also the residue of leftism (including morality, fetishizing organization, the unwillingness to question technology or civilization on any basic level...the list continues) within the anarchist \"movement\" that is concerning many post-left and green anarchists. Check out the new GA for an in-depth primer on the \"Problem of the Left\" for more analysis of this subject. The Left, in all its forms, flavors, and degrees of extremity have all been a complete failure, and antithetical to freedom.
comment by infoshop moderator
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 01:01 AM CST
Incoherent flamebait deleted.
comment by aragorn
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 01:12 AM CST
I think it would be fair to label all opposition to the standing order as a \'failure\' until such time as capitalism and the state have been abolished.

I would agree with you (nbi) that the Left have successfully engaged in a number of holding actions. For that I consider them to be among the traditions that I would consider inspiring. I think that seeing those holding actions as the same things as victory says a volume about the state of many anarchists.

A!
comment by Matt H
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 04:37 PM CST
Ok - I\'ll stay out then. Hope y\'all can find some common ground.
comment by wild-fire
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 04:38 PM CST
A! can you elaborate on those inspirational holding actions?
comment by aragorn
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 09:41 PM CST
inspirational holding actions
(by the left)
IWW struggle for 8 hour work day
May \'68
The Paris Commune
Algiers, Nicaragua, Guatamala, Chiapas, et al
The thousands of personal stories of how participation in mass action transformed a person into a revolutionary
Earth First! (before they stopped tree spiking)
etc, etc,

A!
comment by Makhno
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 08:00 PM CST
Is this the complete article? Because if it is, there is at least one huge omission here. Lawrence says at one point,

This is the pivotal area of conflict between all leftists and all anarchists, despite the historical positioning of anarchism within the spectrum of leftism
comment by Makhno
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 08:25 PM CST
Well, perhaps the \"This\" that Lawrence refers to in the quote I used above refers not to anarchists or their relationship with the Left, but rather, to \"an attachment to the functions of government\", which he mentioned in the previous sentence.
comment by Matt H
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 06:04 PM CST
Yikes! That\'s an odd policy, in my opinion (not trying to pick a fight here - I\'m a supporter of infoshop.org!). I see a lot of back and forth in the threads here where people ask others to define what they mean by certain terms. Seems essential if you\'re trying to debate a certain point.

I guess we\'ll never get anywhere if we can\'t try to define it and can\'t critique the critique. Too bad. I think it hurts anarchists in the big picture not try to come to a better understanding of these issues. Maybe these things can be worked out in other venues.

Anyway, sorry that you won\'t be moderating any more, Flint. Based the posts I\'ve seen, you\'ve always struck me as solid.
comment by Reverend Chuck0
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 06:21 PM CST
There is no such policy. I was only moderating THIS thread more closely because there has been too much trash-talking against post-leftists on this website of late.
comment by Flint
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 04:51 PM CST
It is now policy that requests to define leftism, and calling post-leftism incoherent are subject to deletion. I\'m not going to enforce a moderation policy that I don\'t agree with, so to solve the issue I\'m going to quit being a moderator.

I\'m done arguing about post-leftism. Hopefully it\'ll die from it\'s own lack of practical success.
comment by nur
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 05:01 PM CST
Would anarcho-syndicalists, platformists and other self-identified left-anarchists be included in this definition of leftism? If not, then would these groups be considered non-left or post-left. I should think that they are probably closer to the left, then the socalled post-left, which acknowledges that they are coming out of leftism. If the leftist believes:

1. Non-political people, left to their own devices, will never be able to alter their situations in a radical or revolutionary manner (Lenin
comment by W.B. Reeves
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, January 30 2004 @ 11:58 AM CST
\"Even in Spain, Lenin was right.\"

We\'re afflicted by differing interpretations of the same events. It\'s been the genius of Leninism as a political movement to claim sole authorship of every \"victory\" and deny all culpability in defeat.

Are you seriously suggesting that the Spanish workers had not moved beyond a
comment by ???
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, January 30 2004 @ 12:06 PM CST
Reeves -- no, I\'m not denying it at all. Under the leadership largely of anarcists, millions totally moved beyond \"trade unionism.\"

The point is the same. Lenin just recognized it. It was the anarchists inability to decisively move that led to their defeat. It was the sell-out nature of the Spanish CP (and Stalin\'s bullshit) that led the communists to not side with the revolutionary workers. I\'m not into ideological identity politics.

And it was the fascists that won. There\'s plenty of blame to go around. That\'s usually how defeats happen.
comment by Jonathan Nil
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, January 30 2004 @ 12:54 PM CST
Like I posted before (and got deleted), I too perceive much of post-leftism as being attacking \'leftist\' anarchists. If post-leftists are allowed to trash leftists, but leftists aren\'t allowed to even try to narrow down what definition of \'left\' the \'post-left\' is operating under....

I agree that in these discussions (along with many other current anarchist intellectual \'disputes\'), there\'s often a distinct lack of honest comminication, of trying to understand where the other party is coming from and how that intersects with where you are coming from. Instead of just looking for ways to score points against the other party, regardless of if they really meant what you suggest they meant. I see this coming from _all_ sides, really, and it would be nice if we could figure out a way to generate more light and less heat. But Chuck0\'s (unannounced until Flint forced the issue---I was wondering what happened to my post!) ad-hoc policy of restricting the bounds of acceptable discussion from one \'side\' is not going to help.

Of course, my previous deleted post said much the same thing, and was even more polite than this one is, so I\'d guess this one\'ll get deleted too.
comment by Reverend Chuck0
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, January 30 2004 @ 05:30 PM CST
I was attempting to moderate this thread in a manner that would discourage the dishonest and chepa attacks that people were making on post-leftism. The ironic thing is that I get into trouble when I try to enforce consistent policies on this *moderated* news board. The same people who complain today about my moderation in this thread would say nothing if I was deleting anti-NEFAC comments, which I do on a regular basis. So when the moderation suits them, they are silent. When they act out and engage in irresponsible, sectarian debate and I remove posts, they scream bloody murder.

I\'ve gotten to the point where I\'m not going to listen to complaints. People visit this website and post here because they support my moderation decisions. I have an obligation to the majority of people who support what I do, not to the loudmouths who think the website should bend its rules to suit their unprincipled behavior. ANd if people really hate my moderation decisions (or any moderation decisions), they can always go start their own website. HTML is easy to learn and webhosting is easy to come by. No one is forcing you to visit this website. And bear in mind these important facts: 1) no other website openly allows activists to debate freely and engage in high value, ongoing debates; and 2) there is only one person who has been banned from this website. Other like Chris Day may find many of their posts removed, but there are still lots of posts from them in the Infoshop News database.
comment by MaRK
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, January 30 2004 @ 06:01 PM CST
The same people who complain today about my moderation in this thread would say nothing if I was deleting anti-NEFAC comments, which I do on a regular basis.

What are you talking about? This analogy almost might make sense if not for the afct that there is a HUGE difference between flamebait (unwarranted attacks), and challenging a body of ideas for being inconcistent, and largely incoherent.

You certainly don\'t delete every email that speaks ill of NEFAC of supposedly being \"workerist\" or \"bureaucratic\". You only erase the nastiest of the attacks, so don\'t try and play this card.

I saw Flint\'s post before you deleted it, and it was a perfectly reasonable comment. Just because you disagree with it doesn\'t make it flamebait.



comment by Infoshop moderator
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, January 30 2004 @ 09:32 AM CST
Personal attack and slander against webmaster deleted.
comment by ???
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, January 30 2004 @ 09:37 AM CST
Lenin was right, about that at least. If someone has some examples to prove otherwise, I\'d like to see it.

Zapatistas? Lenin was right.
MayJune? Lenin was right.
Even in Spain, Lenin was right.

So, think what you will of the man -- he was trying to figure out how revolutions actually happen which is more than I can say for the post-postists.
comment by Reverend Chuck0
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, January 30 2004 @ 09:48 PM CST
What the fuck are you talking about? Flint removed all of his posts that were here and then I removed the rest of the comments.

I\'ve removed lots of posts attacking NEFAC over the years.

And if post-leftism is so \"incoherent,\" why do you bother to keep trashing it in the forums. Obviously you feel threatened by it for some reason.
comment by lawrence
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, January 30 2004 @ 11:03 PM CST
My thanks to the folks at GA for posting my essay. Unfortunately, as Makhno points out, an entire section of the essay is missing--the last section. Here it is. Sorry for the delay.

Are All Forms of Anarchism Leftist?
All anarchists share a desire to abolish government; that is the definition of anarchism. Starting with Bakunin, anarchism has been explicitly anti-statist, anti-capitalist, and anti-authoritarian; no serious anarchist seeks to alter that. Leftists have consistently supported and promoted the functions of the State, have an ambiguous relationship to capitalist development, and are all interested in maintaining hierarchical relationships. In addition, historically they have either tacitly ignored or actively suppressed the desires of individuals and groups for autonomy and self-organization, further eroding any credible solidarity between themselves and anarchists. On a purely definitional level, then, there should be an automatic distinction between leftists and anarchists, regardless of how things have appeared in history.
Despite these differences, many anarchists have thought of themselves as extreme leftists
comment by W.B. Reeves
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, January 31 2004 @ 11:26 AM CST
I see.

If you\'re not into \" ideological identity politics\" it might be a good idea not to identify with sectarian formulations like vanguardism. It\'s at best disingenuous to defend Lenin\'s theory of class leadership while ignoring its explicit connection to his theory and practice of the vanguard party. Lenin would never have accepted any anarchist leadership as legitimate in this context.
Lenin\'s whole notion of the historic vanguard was developed as an argument for the Bolshevik conception of a vanguard party. If he had simply been asserting that a \"leadership\" arises in any given revolutionary struggle (as you appear to believe) it\'s doubtful that many of his contemporaries would have disputed him. In point of fact he was arguing that his method of organization and his party \"objectively\" constituted a historically determined revolutionary vanguard to the exclusion of all other models. It was this principal that later provided the basis for denouncing all non-bolsheviks as \"objectively\" counter-revolutionary.

In short, your point is not at all the same as Lenin\'s and factual criticism of ideas is not \"ideological identity politics.\".
comment by MaRK
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, January 31 2004 @ 11:28 AM CST
Chuck0, calling post-leftism \"incoherent\" is the equivilent of calling NEFAC \"buearucratic\" or \"reformist\" or \"workerist\". Not the nicest compliment, but certainly not flamebait.

You definitely do not delete every post that has used any of these derogatory terms to describe NEFAC. Nor do you think you should. Let someone from NEFAC challenge these posts for themselves. The same with post-leftism threads. If post-leftism is not \"incoherent\" (I certainly think it is), than let someone from the post-left milieu speak to the issue. That\'s what debate is all about.

As for being threatened by post-leftism, well, in a way sure. I believe strongly in the potential of revolutionary anarchism, and I think post-leftism is a blueprint for completely marginalizing the small North American anarchist movement while it is still in it\'s infancy.

But that is just my opinion. I know others feel the same way about certain aspects of platformism. That\'s why we bring these ideas out in public forums and challenge each other in debate. That\'s why Infoshop is a useful resource. However, if you are going to squash areas of debate for partisan reasons, than you limit our ability to challenge each other.
comment by GA
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, February 03 2004 @ 04:17 PM CST
Sorry for missing the last (and probably most important) section of this informative essay. You know us anti-civs and technology...it\'s a hate-hate relationship that we sometimes must enter into in order to bring down the tecno-industrial machine (going into the matrix to destroy it).
Anyway, if you liked or hated this essay, then check-out the new issue of GA (#15-winter), in which we have a special focus on the \"Problem of the Left\". It is a a primer dealing with the Left, and should be posted in its entirety sometime in the next couple weeks on www.greenanarchy.org. We also will probably post other sections on this discussion board in the future.
GA
comment by Flint
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 04 2004 @ 01:33 PM CST
I hope you post your nasty jibes at NEA/NEFAC, Onward, Chomsky, AK Press, Slug and Lettuce, Fifth Estate, etc... while cheerleading of N17, the ETA, and every psycopath with a gun or bomb who knocks off a politican, boss or scientist.

And Chuck0 calls NEFAC sectarian!

As you\'re leaving the left, don\'t let the door hit in the ass on the way out.

\"Loving Wage Slavery Since I Was Old Enough To Work!\"
comment by A. Morefus
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, February 04 2004 @ 06:11 PM CST
Your terms \"nasty jibes\" and \"cheerleading\" are rediculous. Yes, there is critical analysis of all the groups mentioned, and in some cases, like Noam Chompsky and AK Press, it does get a little nastey, but for good reason (To those who haven\'t seen the new issue, read it yourself, don\'t take Flint\'s defensive word for it). But these have not been posted here. Maybe they will at some point, but until they do, let\'s stick to the article posted. You are more then welcome to contact us at collective@greenanarchy.org or write us a letter if you want to discuss anything else that appears in our latest issue. I\'m not gonna get into it here \'cause I don\'t have the time that Flint appears to spend on this discussion board. I only post a few articles when a new issue of GA comes out, and then I\'m pretty much done here, except maybe for a few days of follow-up. I got real-world stuff to keep me more then occupied. Oh, and by the way, if you actually read our reports on N17 or ETA, you would know we are more then critical of both of these groups.
comment by MaRK
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, February 06 2004 @ 08:25 PM CST
Yeah, the latest issue of GA was probably the most depressing peice of sectarian trash I\'ve seen come out of the anarchist milieu in quite sometime. I think you may have even surpassed Fred Woodworth. Congratulations.

I have talked to a few green anarchists who\'s opinions I respect, and they have completely written off Green Anarchy after the past few issues because they are not into the ongoing pretension and nastiness. I assume this is happening more and more among your readership.

Do you all ever ask yourselves what is the fucking point? Don\'t you realize that you have become total caricatures of yourselves, and discredit any valid ideas, opinions, or constructive criticisms you might have? Literally half of the new issue is just sectarian swipes. Are you that insecure in your politics that you need to go to these lengths to attack everyone around you? Kinda sad.

On a side note, I\'m curious. Being someone who deals with printers on a fairly regular basis, I have a pretty good idea of costs for publishing a magazine.

Now, if Green Anarchy has expanded to a 72-page magazine, with glossy cover, and a press run of 9,000 (while simultaneously, as far as I can tell, losing readership)... where exactly are y\'all getting the funding to pay the $9-12,000 it must cost to print each issue? Did someone tap a serious trust fund or what?



comment by A. Morefus
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, February 07 2004 @ 04:48 PM CST
Actually, our readership has gone up, that\'s why we continually increase our print runs. We get dozens of letters and emails a week thanking us for saying what others are thinking and feeling. It is not secrarian to be critical, it is essential if we are to be effective on any level, and if we are to remain anarchists and free-thinkers.
Also, While our cost for printing has gone up with the new format, your estimated cost is outragously incorrect. But, how we pay for it is our business (even propossing that question is kind of fucked up, for reasons I won\'t go into on a public board), but in a general way, we have subscribers, distributors, a successful distro, and many supporters who appreciate what we are doing. None of us have trust funds...what are you from the IRS.
If we are talking about sectarianism, the constant petty and often incorrect assumtions made in order to attempt to \"discredit\" GA are what could be described as this. Why can\'t your criticisms stay in the realm of the ideas discussed? All of the so-called \"sectarianism\" are legitimate issues we or others have with various projects that are layed out cleartly in our journal. We can argue over those ideas, or we can write them off as sectarian.
I also reject the notion that we need to work with the Left, and that any attack on them is sectarian. The Left has proven to be just as big of an enemy to anarchists as the right, and both should be rejected. That is not to say that there are not some positive historical events and projects that were contained within the Left, or that there are not individuals who still identify with it that are not of interest or deserving of respect, but as a whole, anarchists need to be an autonomous movement, made up of autonomous groups of affinity.

PS - I\'ll be posting another article from the primer on the Left from our new issue today. Maybe those who despise where we come from can actually discuss the ideas in it for a change, unless they are \"that insecure with their politics\" to do so.